Lost Spoiler thread - Spiegazioni inside

[bertinho7]

vabbè è per nominarla facilmente, è da qualche post che si è capito che è una timeline parallela farlocca.

Sì sì ovvio questo l'ho detto già nel primo post...scrivendo parallela intendevo alternativa, errore mio!
Rispiegami bene la storia di Desmond però

desmond è sempre stato un passo davanti a tutti...per il fatto di vivere in + tempi diversi secondo me...ti ricordi i suoi viaggi assurdi nello spazio-tempo?
nella realtà del purgatorio (chiamola cosi d'orai n poi che dite?) all'inizio pure lui era dormiente se vi ricordate...poi finisce il mare con charlie che nn voleva suonare al concerto...e poi ritrova daniel filosofo dello spazio-tempo alla fine...da li lui si ricorda tutto...e risveglia gli altri uno alla volta

oh poi sulla figura di des ho i miei bei dubbi sia chiaro

[Black87]

ma Wildmore alla fine che interesse aveva nell'isola? A conti fatti non si capisce bene da che parte sia, porta Desmond sull'isola ma Desmond ha una doppia funzione, potrebbe distruggerla come anche far uccidere il Locke "posseduto". Così sua moglie, che nella scena del ricevimento è contraria all'incontro. Sono personaggi alquanto enigmatici.

[Rik_the_Dog]

desmond è sempre stato un passo davanti a tutti...per il fatto di vivere in + tempi diversi secondo me...ti ricordi i suoi viaggi assurdi nello spazio-tempo?
nella realtà del purgatorio (chiamola cosi d'orai n poi che dite?) all'inizio pure lui era dormiente se vi ricordate...poi finisce il mare con charlie che nn voleva suonare al concerto...e poi ritrova daniel filosofo dello spazio-tempo alla fine...da li lui si ricorda tutto...e risveglia gli altri uno alla volta

oh poi sulla figura di des ho i miei bei dubbi sia chiaro

Sì è vero in effetti...invece il riferimento alla morte di Charlie? "no Penny's Boat?" E' collegato? Non mi ricordo!

[Rik_the_Dog]

ma Wildmore alla fine che interesse aveva nell'isola? A conti fatti non si capisce bene da che parte sia, porta Desmond sull'isola ma Desmond ha una doppia funzione, potrebbe distruggerla come anche far uccidere il Locke "posseduto". Così sua moglie, che nella scena del ricevimento è contraria all'incontro. Sono personaggi alquanto enigmatici.

Sì anche io non ho capito...e mi sono perso quando Desmond dice alla madre di Daniel che non porterà suo figlio con lui, cosa non vera visto che ritrova la rossa

[bertinho7]

ma Wildmore alla fine che interesse aveva nell'isola? A conti fatti non si capisce bene da che parte sia, porta Desmond sull'isola ma Desmond ha una doppia funzione, potrebbe distruggerla come anche far uccidere il Locke "posseduto". Così sua moglie, che nella scena del ricevimento è contraria all'incontro. Sono personaggi alquanto enigmatici.

da quel che ricordo...lui voleva tornare sull'isola all'inizio voleva sfruttarne i poteri...ma poi dice che jacob gli è apparso per farlo tornare,nell'ultima serie...
la moglie è "maga dello spazio tempo"...lei sa benissimo che nel purgatorio sono tutti morti e che tutto è fittizio..infatti chiede a des se voglia portarsi via pure daniel....

ps: nella realtà parallela si vede mai charles wildmore?nn ricordo

[bertinho7]

Sì è vero in effetti...invece il riferimento alla morte di Charlie? "no Penny's Boat?" E' collegato? Non mi ricordo!

quando charlie muore alla fine della 3-4 serie,nn ricordo...avvisa des che la nave che li sta per soccorrere nn è quella di penny...
quando cadono in acqua,nella realtà del purgatorio,desmond ha lo stesso flash della mano con la scritta...ma nella mano poi charlie nn aveva scritto nulla...
infatti anche nella realtà dell'isola,desmond cambia radicalmente se ci fate caso...sembra avere consapevolezza di tutto,infatti fronteggia l'uomo nero come se niente fosse quando lo getta nel pozzo...

[Rik_the_Dog]

da quel che ricordo...lui voleva tornare sull'isola all'inizio voleva sfruttarne i poteri...ma poi dice che jacob gli è apparso per farlo tornare,nell'ultima serie...
la moglie è "maga dello spazio tempo"...lei sa benissimo che nel purgatorio sono tutti morti e che tutto è fittizio..infatti chiede a des se voglia portarsi via pure daniel....

ps: nella realtà parallela si vede mai charles wildmore?nn ricordo

Accidenti è vero, la madre è come un angelo della morte! Charles nell'universo "purgatorio"non c'è!

[Je ssò Foorttt'']

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

Questo post di uno degli autori aiuta a far luce su vari aspetti,non tutti.Infatti molti dei misteri dell'isola rimangono insoluti,e forse questo è un bene: preferisco un finale aperto ma emozionante come questo che non una rincorsa a tappare le numerose "falle" che si sono inevitabilmente venute a creare in 6 anni di sceneggiatura.La forza di lost non sono i paradossi quantistici e la filosofia "take-away",la forza di lost è l'empatia che si stabilisce tra lo spettatore ed i personaggi,scelta in qualche modo ribadita dal finale "alternativo" in cui ognuno ha bisogno dell'anima gemella per poter "move on",andare avanti,verso dove non ha importanza

[Rik_the_Dog]

quando charlie muore alla fine della 3-4 serie,nn ricordo...avvisa des che la nave che li sta per soccorrere nn è quella di penny...
quando cadono in acqua,nella realtà del purgatorio,desmond ha lo stesso flash della mano con la scritta...ma nella mano poi charlie nn aveva scritto nulla...
infatti anche nella realtà dell'isola,desmond cambia radicalmente se ci fate caso...sembra avere consapevolezza di tutto,infatti fronteggia l'uomo nero come se niente fosse quando lo getta nel pozzo...

Però ora che ci penso...il fratello di Jacob cadendo giù verso la luce, è diventato fumo nero...e poi il corpo si ritrova nella stessa posizione di JAck, penso sia voluto, infatti mi aspettavo sarebbe divenuto fumo nero anche lui!

[bertinho7]

Questo post di uno degli autori aiuta a far luce su vari aspetti,non tutti.Infatti molti dei misteri dell'isola rimangono insoluti,e forse questo è un bene: preferisco un finale aperto ma emozionante come questo che non una rincorsa a tappare le numerose "falle" che si sono inevitabilmente venute a creare in 6 anni di sceneggiatura.La forza di lost non sono i paradossi quantistici e la filosofia "take-away",la forza di lost è l'empatia che si stabilisce tra lo spettatore ed i personaggi,scelta in qualche modo ribadita dal finale "alternativo" in cui ogniuno ha bisogno dell'anima gemella per poter "move on",andare avanti,verso dove non ha importanza

poi me lo leggo ... sono al lavoro...
ho detto tante stronzate finora jessò?dimmi che hai già letto considerazioni + illustri

[Black87]

avete notato la vetrata della chiesa?

[Adam]

ma piuttosto, perchè jacob aveva i superpoteri? e invece jack e hugo prendendo il testimone e quindi sostituendo jacob sono rimasti solo umani? cosa ha fatto jacob per diventare un mezzo dio?

[Adam]

miiiii pure l'islam c'han messo

[bertinho7]

Però ora che ci penso...il fratello di Jacob cadendo giù verso la luce, è diventato fumo nero...e poi il corpo si ritrova nella stessa posizione di JAck, penso sia voluto, infatti mi aspettavo sarebbe divenuto fumo nero anche lui!

nn proprio...l'avevo pensato pure io
però jack si risveglia se nn ricordo male nello stesso punto dove si era risvegliato dopo essere ritornato sull'isola...e poi crepa () nello stesso punto dove aveva aperto gli occhi all'inizio...
jack è jacob quindi antitesi dell'uomo nero,nn credo diventi il fumo nero...
quando l'uomo nero diventa fumo,muore appeso tipo ad un ramo cmq nelle vicinazne di jack,fuori dal canneto...

ps: MA LA SCARPA CHE SI VEDE NEL CANNETO,è QUELLA DELL'UOMO NERO?PER ME SI ...qui qualcosa fa pensare a jack uomo nero un po'...boh

[Adam]

qualcuno mi dica di jacob please