Leucina singola

[cardi]

se intendi il post su bw, diceva che erano sprecati i bcaa in rapporto superiore 3:1:1 e che quindi conviene prendere diretttamente la leucina singola

[jeiko]

se intendi il post su bw, diceva che erano sprecati i bcaa in rapporto superiore 3:1:1 e che quindi conviene prendere diretttamente la leucina singola

no cardi, si discuteva dei bcaa 8:1:1 - 10:1:1 in pratica il rapporto di leucina era sprecato perchè il rapporto migliore da studi è 3:1:1 quindi in pratica aveva ragione

[cardi]

ho capito, ma appunto si discuteva dei bcaa

qua si discute della leucina singola, abbinata a nient'altro e senza nessun rapporto

[elan]

la leucina via mTOR attiva la SP,ma during quest ultima è inibita quindi aumentarne la quantità nn apporta benefici particolari

i ramificati in linea di massima si consumano in egual misura during(va considerato anche il contesto alimentare poi nello specifico)quindi il miglior rapporto sarebbe 1:1:1

post gli sbilanciati in leucina hanno senso,ma a sto punto la singola ne ha di piu.ma se si usano carbo nn ha nemmeno troppo senso visto che l insulina attiva l mTOR in maniera efficace

[jeiko]

la leucina via mTOR attiva la SP,ma during quest ultima è inibita quindi aumentarne la quantità nn apporta benefici particolari

i ramificati in linea di massima si consumano in egual misura during(va considerato anche il contesto alimentare poi nello specifico)quindi il miglior rapporto sarebbe 1:1:1

post gli sbilanciati in leucina hanno senso,ma a sto punto la singola ne ha di piu.ma se si usano carbo nn ha nemmeno troppo senso visto che l insulina attiva l mTOR in maniera efficace

apparte che non sono "scientifico" come te(mortacci tua ) ma c'è qualche studio che indichi tutto ciò ? giusto per capire...cioè negli anni si è passato dal 2:1:1 al boom del 4:1:1...e successivamente dell'8:1:1 ora invece si ritorna quasi indietro...
ad esempio io prendo gli amino IV intra wo(anche se prendo 1 scoop) per poi scoprire che in pratica li "piscio" tutti ?

[feiwong]

Di seguito 2 articoli (in inglese però , non ho tempo per tradurre). Il primo parla del perché e' preferibile aggiungere leucina ai pasti, mentre il secondo del perché sarebbe preferibile il rapporto 2:1:1 dei bcaa; Enjoy

When analyzing the bodybuilding diet, there is one common denominator which takes priority above all else. Regardless of individual goals or variances in metabolism, its role remains central, around which everything else revolves. I am talking about protein—the basic building blocks of life. An indispensible macronutrient, it is responsible for the construction and maintenance of every tissue in our body, enabling us to build an awe-inspiring physique and perform super-human feats of strength. As the initiator of muscle growth, ensuring adequate quantities of this nutrient within our diet is of paramount importance, lest we inadvertently short-change ourselves of the results we could be getting.


Traditionally, bodybuilders have attempted to meet their protein requirements through the regular consumption of nitrogen-rich animal products, such as meat, eggs, and milk. While the effectiveness of this approach is indisputable, recent research has revealed a way to extract even more benefit from our body’s muscle-building machinery. When it comes to protein intake, most bodybuilders are concerned with two primary factors—quality and quantity. While it’s safe to say that both of these are important considerations, they are not the only protein related factors governing muscle growth.


In order to understand why relying on whole-food alone, or even a combination of whole-food and protein shakes is not optimal, we must first understand the role of leucine in the muscle growth process. Although one of the basic building blocks used in the constriction of muscle tissue, leucine is unique in that is also serves as the primary regulator of protein synthesis via the M-tor pathway. In laymen’s terms, leucine signals the body to begin building muscle tissue and the more leucine that is present, the stronger the signal becomes.


While all the essential amino acids are required in order for muscle growth to take place, only leucine can initiate the process. Technically, one could consume 200 grams of protein, but if leucine concentrations are insufficient, protein synthesis will be impaired. On the other hand, leucine is able to signal protein synthesis even in the complete absence of essential amino acids. Of course, all the EAA’s must be present for growth to occur, but the signal will still be sent none the less. Therefore, maximizing muscle growth requires two things: Sufficient quantities of essential amino acids and an optimal amount of leucine.


In using a construction site as an analogy for muscle growth, let’s view leucine as the foreman, EAA’s as regular workers, and the construction site itself as our muscles. By increasing the number of workers present, work potential increases, but without any foreman available to command the work force, construction will be postponed. If we place a foreman at the scene, work can begin, but if there are not enough foremen present to efficiently manage all the workers, productivity will be poor. Only by bringing additional foreman to the site can productivity be maximized and construction be completed as quickly as possible.


In the same way, we can eat all the protein we want, but if adequate leucine is not present, protein synthesis will never be maximized. In response to this, one might argue that if we just consume enough complete protein, we will likewise consume enough leucine, maximizing protein synthesis in the process. While this might make sense at first glance, this option presents some serious roadblocks which make it less than ideal.


Studies have shown that it takes roughly 4.5 grams of leucine, administered in free-form, to maximize protein synthesis. One would need to consume roughly 50 grams of protein from red meat to get this amount of leucine; hardly an excessive amount by bodybuilding standards. However, 50 grams of red meat protein will not increase protein synthesis to the same degree as 4.5 grams of leucine. Why? Differences in absorption rate. Whole foods protein, especially meat, takes several hours to fully digest, resulting in a delayed release of leucine into the bloodstream. In order for leucine to maximize protein synthesis at a dose of 4.5 grams, it needs to enter the bloodstream rapidly; basically all at once. Having that same amount of leucine trickle into the system over several hours will not have the same effect. Even when added to whey protein, which digests much more quickly than whole-food, adding extra leucine still results in an additional boost in protein synthesis.


One could try to make up for this delayed release by consuming a massive amount of meat protein in a single sitting, but even then, the absorption rate would still be too slow, not to mention the negative impact on digestive health such a practice would have. The bottom line is that it is just about impossible to maximally stimulate protein synthesis with whole-food proteins alone. Protein powders are generally superior for this purpose, as their leucine content is liberated and assimilated more quickly than whole-foods. The one exception are casein-based proteins, which tend to coagulate in the stomach, taking many hours to completely digest. The most rapidly digesting proteins are those which have been hydrolyzed, or pre-digested. However, keep in mind that only those hydrolyzed proteins with a high leucine content (whey, casein, beef, egg, etc) are ideal. When evaluating non-hydrolyzed proteins, whey isolate is the best choice.


Despite the inherent limitations of whole-food proteins, this issue is easy to overcome. These days, supplemental leucine is readily available, with numerous supplement companies offering this product at relatively inexpensive prices. While there is some debate regarding the best way to supplement with this amino acid, the one thing everyone seems to be in agreement on is that it should be included in every bodybuilder’s program. Some recommend administering leucine in-between meals, so that competition for absorption with other amino acids, which can be an issue with aminos in free-form, is reduced. Others suggest adding it to whole-food meals in order to achieve a maximum spike in protein synthesis right from the get-go, followed by a sustained release of amino acids over a several hour period.


There are potential advantages to both options. Those who supplement in-between meals will likely absorb a higher percentage of the leucine they consume, thereby increasing its cost-effectiveness. However, science has revealed that chronic elevations in blood leucine levels results in desensitization to the protein synthesis signaling effects of leucine, as has been demonstrated with a intravenous leucine drip. At what point this desensitizing effect occurs is still a matter of speculation, but some have expressed concern that eating 5-7 meals per day (all of which normally contains significant amounts of protein), in addition to supplementing with free-form leucine in-between these meals, may be excessive. In my experience, adding 2 grams of leucine to each of one’s daily meals has proven to be an effective approach, without having to worry about possible desensitization.


Although much more costly, peptide-bonded leucine is an alternative to free-form leucine, as it does not suffer from absorption issues that plague regular leucine, even when in the presence of other amino acids. However, its increased absorption rate does not justify the price, as one can make up for free-form leucine’s shortcomings simply by taking a little bit more, and the cost will still be considerably less. It should also be mentioned that adding a bit if whey protein to the end of a whole-food meal will also lead to increased protein synthesis.


Regardless of how good your diet might be, relying on whole-food proteins alone will never provide optimal results. In my opinion, leucine is a foundational supplement that every bodybuilder should be using. At a cost of about $10-15/month, most people will have an easy time fitting it into their monthly budget. Although lacking immediate gratification, the benefits of leucine are consistent, translating into a bigger and better physique over time.
Source: Iron Magazine




Longtime followers of mine should be well-versed in the benefits of branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs), which are the three essential aminos leucine, isoleucine, and valine. However, given that different supplements contain different ratios of these three critical aminos, there's a lot of confusion about which ratio of BCAAs is best. Before we dive into that discussion, here's a quick branched-chain primer.


BCAAs are called branched-chain amino acids because of their structure. Each one has a forked outcropping that resembles a branch. In addition to being special for their structure, they are also special for numerous other reasons.


BCAAs aid in energy and even fat loss, but the main benefit of BCAAs is their ability to boost muscle growth. After all, that's the number one goal for most of us. When it comes to building muscle, BCAAs are the most critical amino acids. Of the three, leucine is the MVP. Leucine plays one of the most critical roles in growth signaling.


LEUCINE IS KING
Leucine acts much like a key to the ignition of a car. The car, in this case, is a muscle cell or fiber. The ignition turns on the process of muscle protein synthesis (MPS), which builds up the muscle protein that leads to more muscle growth. In more "science-y" terms, leucine activates a complex called mTOR, which ramps up muscle protein synthesis and therefore muscle growth.


Research suggests that people who add extra leucine to their post-workout protein and carbs experienced significantly greater muscle protein synthesis than those just getting protein and carbs. Because leucine is so critical for muscle growth, you want to make sure you use a BCAA product that has more leucine than its counterparts, isoleucine and valine.


THE RIGHT RATIO
I recommend you go with a BCAA product that uses a 2:1:1 ratio of leucine to isoleucine and valine. Many products bump up the ratio much higher in favor of leucine, with some coming in at an 8:1:1 ratio and some hitting a 10:1:1 ratio. Many people assume that, given leucine's critical role in muscle growth, a BCAA product with a 10:1:1 ratio is five times better than one with a 2:1:1 ratio. But, before you go spend your hard-earned cash on these supposedly superior BCAA products, hear me out.


The most critical time to take BCAAs is around your workouts, whether you take them before, during, or after. (And yes, that's in addition to the BCAA-rich protein shake you should also be drinking.) One reason for this is that you want ample leucine to instigate muscle protein synthesis. It's this fact that leads many people to assume that the highest ratio is best.


Some products even suggest you should forego the other two BCAAs and just take leucine. That is a big mistake. To back it up, one study pitted leucine by itself against all three BCAAs in a 2:1:1 ratio. Scientists from Baylor University gave college-aged men either a leucine supplement, a 2:1:1 BCAA supplement, or a placebo before and after a leg workout. They discovered that while leucine increased MPS after the workout better than the placebo did, the BCAAs increased protein synthesis even better than leucine and the placebo. That's one reason for sticking with a 2:1:1 ratio (or something close to it) when supplementing with BCAAs.


Another reason to use a 2:1:1 BCAA supplement is to increase energy and lessen fatigue. BCAAs are used directly by muscle fibers as a fuel source. This is especially true during intense exercise, such as weight training. Numerous studies suggest that supplementing with BCAAs before exercise promotes muscle endurance. More importantly, the BCAAs help reduce fatigue during workouts. And this comes down to the role that valine plays in the body.


During exercise, tryptophan is taken up by the brain in large amounts. Tryptophan is converted in the brain to 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT), better known as serotonin. Having higher serotonin levels during exercise signals the brain that the body is fatigued. This leads to a reduction in muscle strength and endurance. Valine competes with tryptophan for entry into the brain. Typically, valine wins.


This means that when you take the BCAA valine before and/or during workouts, less tryptophan gets into the brain to get converted to serotonin. This allows your muscles to contract with more force for a longer time before getting fatigued. In other words, you can crank out more reps in the gym, recover quicker between sets, and maintain better strength and endurance in the later portion of your workouts. Valine can also help you to stay more alert and keep your brain sharper during the day when you aren't working out.


For these reasons, I recommend sticking to a 2:1:1 ratio of leucine to isoleucine and valine when supplementing with BCAAs before, during, and/or after training.


FIRE UP YOUR FAT LOSS
If you are interested in maximizing fat loss, there's yet another reason why a 2:1:1 ratio is best. This is where the BCAA isoleucine comes in. Isoleucine appears to play a major role in providing BCAAs their fat-burning benefits.


Japanese researchers discovered that mice given isoleucine while eating a high-fat diet gained significantly less fat than mice not getting supplemental isoleucine. This was due to isoleucine's ability to activate special receptors, known as PPAR, that increase fat-burning and inhibit fat storage. PPAR works to increase the activity of genes that encourage greater fat-burning in the body while decreasing activity of genes that normally increase fat storage. This leads to a greater ability to burn fat with less chance of storing it.


It turns out that using a BCAA supplement that has a much ratio higher than 2:1:1 can work against you for energy, fat loss, and even muscle growth. Some high-ratio BCAA products provide only 500 mg or less of valine and isoleucine. Steer clear of these. That amount is not enough to keep you energized and blunt fatigue during your workouts. It may not be enough to maximize muscle protein synthesis and the resulting muscle growth.


THE BOTTOM LINE ON BCAAS
My advice is to stick with BCAA products that use a 2:1:1 ratio providing at least 1 gram of isoleucine and 1 gram of valine per dose. But, if you're looking for optimal gains, your best bet is to get in at least 3 grams of leucine per dose. It's the suggested minimum amount you need to optimize mTOR activation and maximize muscle protein synthesis.


I recommend you take in 5 g of BCAAs at a 2:1:1 ratio (so you get 3 g leucine, and over 1 g of isoleucine and valine) about 30 minutes before your workouts.


Follow that workout with another dose of at least 5 g of BCAAs. Here again, a 2:1:1 ratio is good. Even a 3:1:1 ratio, which will give you a bit more post-workout leucine to initiate protein synthesis, will work well. Just be sure that you're getting at least 1 g of isoleucine valine after your workouts, along with at least 3 g of leucine.


Keep in mind that this should be in addition to pre- and post-workout shakes, or one large protein shake that you sip on before, during, and after the workout. This will bump your BCAA content up a bit, but don't worry: You still need those free BCAAs from a BCAA supplement to truly maximize energy and muscle growth.




REFERENCES
Stoppani, J., et al., Consuming branched-chain amino acid supplement during a resistance training program increases lean mass, muscle strength and fat loss. Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2009, 6(Suppl 1):P1, 2009.


Anthony, J. C., Yoshizawa, F., Anthony, T. G., Vary, T. C., Jefferson, L. S., & Kimball, S. R. (2000) Leucine stimulates translation inititation in skeletal muscle of postabsorptive rats via a rapamycin-sensitive pathway. J. Nutr. 130: 2413-2419.


Crozier, S. J., Kimball, S.R., Emmert, S. W., Anthony, J. C., & Jefferson, L.S. (2005) Oral leucine administration stimulates protein synthesis in rat skeletal muscle. J. Nutr. 135: 376-382.


Crowe, M. J., et al. Effects of dietary leucine supplementation on exercise performance. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2006 Aug;97(6):664-72.


Bolster, D. R., Crozier, S. J., Kimball, S. R., & Jefferson, L. S. (2002) AMP-activated protein kinase suppresses protein synthesis in rat skeletal muscle through down-regulated mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) signaling. J. Biol. Chem. 277: 23977-23980.


Koopman R, Wagenmakers AJ, Manders RJ, Zorenc AH, Senden JM, Gorselink M, Keizer HA, van Loon LJ. (2005) Combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases postexercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects. Am. J. Physiol. Endocrinol. Metab. 288(4): E645-653.


Coburn, J. W., et al. Effects of leucine and whey protein supplementation during eight weeks of unilateral resistance training. J Strength Cond Res 2006 May;20(2):284-91.


La Bounty, P., et al., The effects of oral BCAAs and leucine supplementation combined with an acute lower-body resistance exercise on mTOR and 4E-BP1 activation in humans: preliminary findings. Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, 5(Suppl 1):P21, 2008.


De Lorenzo, A., et al. Effect of acute and chronic branched-chain amino acids on energy metabolism and muscle performance.Diabetes Nutr Metab. 2003 Oct-Dec;16(5-6):291-7.


Blomstrand E.A role for branched-chain amino acids in reducing central fatigue. J Nutr. 2006 Feb;136(2):544S-547S.


Gomez-Merino, D., et al. Evidence that the branched-chain amino acid L-valine prevents exercise-induced release of 5-HT in rat hippocampus. Int J Sports Med. 2001 Jul;22(5):317-22.


Paddon-Jones, D., et al. Amino acid ingestion improves muscle protein synthesis in the young and elderly. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Mar;286(3):E321-8.


Tipton, K. D., et al. Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am J Physiol. 1999 Apr;276(4 Pt 1):E628-34.


Mourier, A., et al. Combined effects of caloric restriction and branched-chain amino acid supplementation on body composition and exercise performance in elite wrestlers. Int J Sports Med 1997 Jan;18(1):47-55.


Cota, D., et al. Hypothalamic mTOR signaling regulates food intake. Science. 2006 May 12;312(5775):927-30.


Donato, J., et al. Effects of leucine supplementation on the body composition and protein status of rats submitted to food restriction. Nutrition 22(5):520-527, 2006.


Nishimura, J., et al. "Isoleucine Prevents the Accumulation of Tissue Triglycerides and Upregulates the Expression of PPAR{alpha} and Uncoupling Protein in Diet-Induced Obese Mice." J. Nutr., March 2010, in press.


Source: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-...-of-bcaas.html

[elan]

apparte che non sono "scientifico" come te(mortacci tua ) ma c'è qualche studio che indichi tutto ciò ? giusto per capire...cioè negli anni si è passato dal 2:1:1 al boom del 4:1:1...e successivamente dell'8:1:1 ora invece si ritorna quasi indietro...
ad esempio io prendo gli amino IV intra wo(anche se prendo 1 scoop) per poi scoprire che in pratica li "piscio" tutti ?

sostanzialmente...marketing jeiko

considera che i ramificati sn i primi ad essere prelevati in caso di bisogno e,piu o meno,vengono "presi" in egual misura tutti e 3,quindi il rapporto ottimale sarebbe 1:1:1 se l assunzione è fatta pre/during(la piu sensata quindi una volta compreso il loro ruolo)

la leucina in particolare stimola la sintesi proteica,ma quest ultima mentre ti alleni è praticamente inibita,quindi perchè aumentarne la concentrazione?post allenamento forse si,ma durante la giornata ancora meglio(ai pasti ad esempio)..ma parliamo di dettagli insomma

aumentare la concentrazione di leucina per serving e prenderli durante gli allenamenti logisticamente nn porta benefici

lo scopo dei bcaa è regolare l aminoacidemia(=concentrazione aminoacidi)quindi occorrono tutti e 3

[baz]

pensi veramente che 10g di polvere facciano la differenza? pensaci bene, sono 10g di polvere


comunque i grammi sono quasi 40, non 20

---------- Post added at 12:17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:16:42 ----------

ovviamente è impossibile notare reali differenze con la leucina

40 g di leucina al giorno sono un barattolo a settimana, stima.

Comunque non mi aspetto chissà che ma come igniter della sintesi proteica la vedevo bene assieme al postwo in una dose massiccia (10/15g).

[topscorer]

Sesondo me post non è indispensabile, in iper come hai detto la vedo meglio pre pasti 2/3gr.

[DaviDinho94]

in ipo volevi dire? in iper non mi sembra tanto utile sinceramente, la sintesi ha modo di avvenire gia per la presenza piu massiccia di carboidrati che in una dieta ipocalorica...

Sesondo me post non è indispensabile, in iper come hai detto la vedo meglio pre pasti 2/3gr.

[topscorer]

No no, in iper, la leucina stimola la sintesi proteica, una presenza piu' massiccia di carboidrati stimola un maggior rilascio di insulina anch'essa anabolica, ma è un'altro discorso.
Stimolando la sintesi proteica, "si suppone" che del cibo ingerito, proteine in particolare, una maggior parte venga utilizzata a fini plastici.
In ipo per il discorso che faceva Elan, vedo meglio tutti i bcaa ed anche la bistrattata glutamina.

[DaviDinho94]

io la vedo piu "feiwong" style spesso seguo volentieri cio che scrivi perchè sicuramente sei molto piu preparato di me e per questo tenderei a dare per valida sicuramente la tua vallutazione piu che la mia, però anche questo è il bello di questo forum, ci si può confrontare e imparare a vicenda proprio grazie al confronto di idee contrastanti io la vedo che, a rigor di logica, con la promozione della sintesi proteica da parte dei carboidrati abbondanti delle diete iper, nei pasti la vedo una scelta eccessiva... sicuramente la vedo molto piu utile si nei pasti, ma soprattutto in ipo, dove la sintesi proteica ha molta piu difficoltà ad avvernire proprio per la minore presenza di stimolazione di insulina di situazioni anaboliche in generale...

[feiwong]

io la vedo piu "feiwong" style spesso seguo volentieri cio che scrivi perchè sicuramente sei molto piu preparato di me e per questo tenderei a dare per valida sicuramente la tua vallutazione piu che la mia, però anche questo è il bello di questo forum, ci si può confrontare e imparare a vicenda proprio grazie al confronto di idee contrastanti io la vedo che, a rigor di logica, con la promozione della sintesi proteica da parte dei carboidrati abbondanti delle diete iper, nei pasti la vedo una scelta eccessiva... sicuramente la vedo molto piu utile si nei pasti, ma soprattutto in ipo, dove la sintesi proteica ha molta piu difficoltà ad avvernire proprio per la minore presenza di stimolazione di insulina di situazioni anaboliche in generale...

[Luca Del Gino]

io ne metto 4-5g ogni pasto , piu 10g nel post wo assieme alla crea

4-5 g ad ogni pasto?

ma metti in bocca e mandi giù con l'acqua?

---------- Post added at 17:01:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00:46 ----------

ma a questo punto in ipo prenderei Bcaa 8:1:1

[cardi]

no, soltanto gli eaa metto in bocca e mando giu, di solito comunque la metto negli shaker quando non faccio pasti solidi