bcca pre nanna

[NaturalMan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: bcca pre nanna

Originally posted by Doc_KSR


a metà allenamento è meglio, così a fine sono già disponibili e perchè il corpo ricostruisce già durante l'allenamento

KSR ? è una grande ditta che vende molto. Ma tu vivi su marte?

sbaglio o sei un pochetto arrogantello? nn volevo innescare una polemica e poi la mia sulla KSR era semplicemente una battuta nn hai visto l'icona lo so che esiste ... sul fatto che sia una super ditta meglio nn esagerare ... cmq ripeto nn sono io a dire se i BCAA funzionano meglio prima durante o dopo ma degli studi scientifici , se tu affermi il contrario dimostralo!



Bye

[iugi]

Re: Re: Re: bcca pre nanna

Originally posted by NaturalMan

studi scientifici pubblicati sul prestigioso "Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab" di Blomstrand ... non sono gli unici perchè altri ed il più bello a mio avviso è quello pubblicato dal prof. De Palo e coll del Dipartimento di Scienze Medico Diagnostiche, Universita degli Studi (Padova), dove gli Autori studiano gli effetti della supplementazione BCAA post-exercise in un gruppo di atleti ed in particolare la loro capacità anabolica e le modificazioni dei livelli di GH... adoro la ricerca scientifica !

Ciao NM ! Interessantissimo! Potresti postare lo studio?
ps. anche a me piace moltissimo leggere le ricerche scientifiche, fanno da ottimo filtro contro la pubblicità . thanx !
iugi

[polpy]

NaturalMan, secondo me Doc intende che se prendi i BCAA Durante l'allenamento, intanto vengono assorbiti, per essere quindi subito disponibili termineto l'allenamento stesso. Io stesso a volte li assumo 10 minuti prima della fine, perche intanto passano nello stomaco...

[Gandal]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: bcca pre nanna

Originally posted by NaturalMan


sbaglio o sei un pochetto arrogantello? nn volevo innescare una polemica e poi la mia sulla KSR era semplicemente una battuta nn hai visto l'icona lo so che esiste ... sul fatto che sia una super ditta meglio nn esagerare ... cmq ripeto nn sono io a dire se i BCAA funzionano meglio prima durante o dopo ma degli studi scientifici , se tu affermi il contrario dimostralo!



Bye

Forse non mi sono spiegato bene, ma scherzavo anchio
comunque per quanto riguarda i BCAA preferisco arrendermi perchè, come ho detto prima, è dal '92 che sento parlare di BCAA prima o dopo ( sembra quasi quella vecchia barzelletta sui profilattici )

Ciao

[NaturalMan]

BCAA DOPO WO e stimolazione GH

Ecco gli articoli che risolveranno il dubbio!

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001 Aug;281(2):E365-74

"BCAA intake affects protein metabolism in muscle after but not during exercise in humans."

Branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) or a placebo was given to seven subjects during 1 h of ergometer cycle exercise and a 2-h recovery period. Intake of BCAA did not influence the rate of exchange of the aromatic amino acids, tyrosine and phenylalanine, in the legs during exercise or the increase in their concentration in muscle. The increase was approximately 30% in both conditions. On the other hand, in the recovery period after exercise, a faster decrease in the muscle concentration of aromatic amino acids was found in the BCAA experiment (46% compared with 25% in the placebo condition). There was also a tendency to a smaller release (an average of 32%) of these amino acids from the legs during the 2-h recovery. The results suggest that BCAA have a protein-sparing effect during the recovery after exercise, either that protein synthesis has been stimulated and/or protein degradation has decreased, but the data during exercise are too variable to make any conclusions about the effects during exercise. The effect in the recovery period does not seem to be mediated by insulin.


Ecco lo studio su BCAA e GH:

Amino Acids 2001;20(1):1-11
"Plasma lactate, GH and GH-binding protein levels in exercise following BCAA supplementation in athletes.
De Palo EF, Gatti R, Cappellin E, Schiraldi C, De Palo CB, Spinella P
Sezione di Biochimica Clinica, Dipartimento di Scienze Medico Diagnostiche, Universita degli Studi, Padova, Italy.

Branched chain amino acids (BCAA) stimulate protein synthesis, and growth hormone (GH) is a mediator in this process. A pre-exercise BCAA ingestion increases muscle BCAA uptake and use. Therefore after one month of chronic BCAA treatment (0.2 gkg(-1) of body weight), the effects of a pre-exercise oral supplementation of BCAA (9.64 g) on the plasma lactate (La) were examined in triathletes, before and after 60 min of physical exercise (75% of VO2 max). The plasma levels of GH (pGH) and of growth hormone binding protein (pGHBP) were also studied. The end-exercise La of each athlete was higher than basal. Furthermore, after the chronic BCAA treatment, these end-exercise levels were lower than before this treatment (8.6+/-0.8 mmol L(-1) after vs 12.8+/-1.0 mmol L(-1) before treatment; p < 0.05 [mean +/- std. err.]). The end-exercise pGH of each athlete was higher than basal (p < 0.05). Furthermore, after the chronic treatment, this end-exercise pGH was higher (but not significantly, p = 0.08) than before this treatment (12.2+/-2.0 ng mL(-1) before vs 33.8+/-13.6 ngmL(-1) after treatment). The end-exercise pGHBP was higher than basal (p < 0.05); and after the BCAA chronic treatment, this end-exercise pGHBP was 738+/-85 pmol L(-1) before vs 1691+/-555 pmol L(-1) after. pGH/pGHBP ratio was unchanged in each athlete and between the groups, but a tendency to increase was observed at end-exercise. The lower La at the end of an intense muscular exercise may reflect an improvement of BCAA use, due to the BCAA chronic treatment. The chronic BCAA effects on pGH and pGHBP might suggest an improvement of muscle activity through protein synthesis.

Ed un altro studio della supplementazione di BCAA post-wo:

J Sports Med Phys Fitness 2000 Sep;40(3):240-6
"Effects of branched-chain amino acid supplementation on serum creatine kinase and lactate dehydrogenase after prolonged exercise."
Coombes JS, McNaughton LR

BACKGROUND: The aim of this study was to examine the effects of branched-chain amino acid (BCAA) supplementation on serum indicators of muscle damage after prolonged exercise. We hypothesized that BCAA supplementation would reduce the serum activities of intramuscular enzymes associated with muscle damage. METHODS: To test this hypothesis, sixteen male subjects were assigned to one of two groups: the supplemental group (consuming 12 g x d(-1) BCAA for 14 d in addition to their normal diet) or the control group (normal diet only). Baseline serum creatine kinase (CK) and lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), shown to be accurate indicators of muscle damage, were determined during the week before the exercise test. The exercise test was administered on day seven and required the subjects to cycle for 120 min on an ergometer at approximately 70% VO2max. Blood samples were taken prior to and immediately following exercise and at 1 hr, 2 hrs, 3 hrs, 4 hrs, 1 d, 3 d, 5 d and 7 d postexercise. All subjects were required have their diets analyzed daily during the 14 d. RESULTS: Dietary analyses indicated that all subjects consumed the recommended daily intake of BCAA (0.64 g x kg(-1)) in their normal diets. Baseline serum values for CK and LDH were not different between groups in the 7 d prior to the test (p>0.05). However there were significant increases (p<0.05) between the pre-exercise and postexercise values for LDH and CK until 5 d postexercise test. Importantly, the BCAA supplementation significantly reduced this change in LDH from 2hrs to 5 d posttest, and CK from 4 hrs to 5 d post-test (p<0.05). CONCLUSIONS: These results indicate that supplementary BCAA decreased serum concentrations of the intramuscular enzymes CK and LDH following prolonged exercise, even when the recommended intake of BCAA was being consumed. This observation suggests that BCAA supplementation may reduce the muscle damage associated with endurance exercise.


Vado a fare un post anche nella sezione "scientific-corner"

[Zio]

Re: BCAA DOPO WO e stimolazione GH

Originally posted by NaturalMan
Ecco gli articoli che risolveranno il dubbio!

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001 Aug;281(2):E365-74

"BCAA intake affects protein metabolism in muscle after but not during exercise in humans."

Branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) or a placebo was given to seven subjects during 1 h of ergometer cycle exercise and a 2-h recovery period. Intake of BCAA did not influence the rate of exchange of the aromatic amino acids, tyrosine and phenylalanine, in the legs during exercise or the increase in their concentration in muscle. The increase was approximately 30% in both conditions. On the other hand, in the recovery period after exercise, a faster decrease in the muscle concentration of aromatic amino acids was found in the BCAA experiment (46% compared with 25% in the placebo condition). There was also a tendency to a smaller release (an average of 32%) of these amino acids from the legs during the 2-h recovery. The results suggest that BCAA have a protein-sparing effect during the recovery after exercise, either that protein synthesis has been stimulated and/or protein degradation has decreased, but the data during exercise are too variable to make any conclusions about the effects during exercise. The effect in the recovery period does not seem to be mediated by insulin.


Ecco lo studio su BCAA e GH:

Amino Acids 2001;20(1):1-11
"Plasma lactate, GH and GH-binding protein levels in exercise following BCAA supplementation in athletes.
De Palo EF, Gatti R, Cappellin E, Schiraldi C, De Palo CB, Spinella P
Sezione di Biochimica Clinica, Dipartimento di Scienze Medico Diagnostiche, Universita degli Studi, Padova, Italy.

Branched chain amino acids (BCAA) stimulate protein synthesis, and growth hormone (GH) is a mediator in this process. A pre-exercise BCAA ingestion increases muscle BCAA uptake and use. Therefore after one month of chronic BCAA treatment (0.2 gkg(-1) of body weight), the effects of a pre-exercise oral supplementation of BCAA (9.64 g) on the plasma lactate (La) were examined in triathletes, before and after 60 min of physical exercise (75% of VO2 max). The plasma levels of GH (pGH) and of growth hormone binding protein (pGHBP) were also studied. The end-exercise La of each athlete was higher than basal. Furthermore, after the chronic BCAA treatment, these end-exercise levels were lower than before this treatment (8.6+/-0.8 mmol L(-1) after vs 12.8+/-1.0 mmol L(-1) before treatment; p < 0.05 [mean +/- std. err.]). The end-exercise pGH of each athlete was higher than basal (p < 0.05). Furthermore, after the chronic treatment, this end-exercise pGH was higher (but not significantly, p = 0.08) than before this treatment (12.2+/-2.0 ng mL(-1) before vs 33.8+/-13.6 ngmL(-1) after treatment). The end-exercise pGHBP was higher than basal (p < 0.05); and after the BCAA chronic treatment, this end-exercise pGHBP was 738+/-85 pmol L(-1) before vs 1691+/-555 pmol L(-1) after. pGH/pGHBP ratio was unchanged in each athlete and between the groups, but a tendency to increase was observed at end-exercise. The lower La at the end of an intense muscular exercise may reflect an improvement of BCAA use, due to the BCAA chronic treatment. The chronic BCAA effects on pGH and pGHBP might suggest an improvement of muscle activity through protein synthesis.

Ed un altro studio della supplementazione di BCAA post-wo:

J Sports Med Phys Fitness 2000 Sep;40(3):240-6
"Effects of branched-chain amino acid supplementation on serum creatine kinase and lactate dehydrogenase after prolonged exercise."
Coombes JS, McNaughton LR

BACKGROUND: The aim of this study was to examine the effects of branched-chain amino acid (BCAA) supplementation on serum indicators of muscle damage after prolonged exercise. We hypothesized that BCAA supplementation would reduce the serum activities of intramuscular enzymes associated with muscle damage. METHODS: To test this hypothesis, sixteen male subjects were assigned to one of two groups: the supplemental group (consuming 12 g x d(-1) BCAA for 14 d in addition to their normal diet) or the control group (normal diet only). Baseline serum creatine kinase (CK) and lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), shown to be accurate indicators of muscle damage, were determined during the week before the exercise test. The exercise test was administered on day seven and required the subjects to cycle for 120 min on an ergometer at approximately 70% VO2max. Blood samples were taken prior to and immediately following exercise and at 1 hr, 2 hrs, 3 hrs, 4 hrs, 1 d, 3 d, 5 d and 7 d postexercise. All subjects were required have their diets analyzed daily during the 14 d. RESULTS: Dietary analyses indicated that all subjects consumed the recommended daily intake of BCAA (0.64 g x kg(-1)) in their normal diets. Baseline serum values for CK and LDH were not different between groups in the 7 d prior to the test (p>0.05). However there were significant increases (p<0.05) between the pre-exercise and postexercise values for LDH and CK until 5 d postexercise test. Importantly, the BCAA supplementation significantly reduced this change in LDH from 2hrs to 5 d posttest, and CK from 4 hrs to 5 d post-test (p<0.05). CONCLUSIONS: These results indicate that supplementary BCAA decreased serum concentrations of the intramuscular enzymes CK and LDH following prolonged exercise, even when the recommended intake of BCAA was being consumed. This observation suggests that BCAA supplementation may reduce the muscle damage associated with endurance exercise.


Vado a fare un post anche nella sezione "scientific-corner"

SCREMO POLLICE SU!!!!!!!!!!!

[freeze]

Allora,i miei 5 gr di bcaa prima e dopo li prendo già.E su questo non ci piove.
In base a quello che mi avete consigliato voglio sapere cosa sono i peptidi e cosa intende Gawain per alte dosi di fosfatildiserina
A proposito ,la fà solo la muscle link?Non mi sembra una gran ditta..

[Gawain]

Originally posted by freeze
cosa intende Gawain per alte dosi di fosfatildiserina

dai 400 agli 800 mg

[swanz]

Originally posted by freeze
sapere cosa sono i peptidi

Sono proteine sel siero del latte che hanno subito un processo di predigestione enzimatica (solitamente).
Perciò entrano nel torrente ematico molto in fretta e altrettanto in fretta lo lasciano.

Secondo me ha poco senso prenderle prima di dormire, perchè dopo solo 30 minuti sei già "scoperto" e il sonno dura 8 ore!
Meglio le caseine o l'uovo.

[Zio]

Originally posted by swanz


Sono proteine sel siero del latte che hanno subito un processo di predigestione enzimatica (solitamente).
Perciò entrano nel torrente ematico molto in fretta e altrettanto in fretta lo lasciano.

Secondo me ha poco senso prenderle prima di dormire, perchè dopo solo 30 minuti sei già "scoperto" e il sonno dura 8 ore!
Meglio le caseine o l'uovo.

Ottimo,vedi che a frequentarmi...

[NaturalMan]

Originally posted by swanz


Sono proteine sel siero del latte che hanno subito un processo di predigestione enzimatica (solitamente).
Perciò entrano nel torrente ematico molto in fretta e altrettanto in fretta lo lasciano.

Secondo me ha poco senso prenderle prima di dormire, perchè dopo solo 30 minuti sei già "scoperto" e il sonno dura 8 ore!
Meglio le caseine o l'uovo.

Daccordissimo e per la precisione ( miiiiii che scassa balls che sono ) sono catene di aminoacidi in coppia (dipeptidi), tripeptidi ecc... quindi nn sono esattamente proteine ma frazioni proteiche ...

[bodymax]

Ciao Ragazzi ma se vi dicessi che i BCAA presi prima di dormire,a dosaggi che mi vergogno a dire,hanno funzionato contro il catabolismo,cmq sono daccordo con NaturalMan prenderli in dosaggi giusti dopo l' allenamento,aggiungerei SUBITO dopo.ciao
Bodymax.

--------------------------http://www.bodymax.it

[NaturalMan]

Originally posted by bodymax
Ciao Ragazzi ma se vi dicessi che i BCAA presi prima di dormire,a dosaggi che mi vergogno a dire,hanno funzionato contro il catabolismo...

assumere solo e semplicemente BCAA ne l prenanna non ti assicurano un costante livello amminoacidico che duri tutta la notte ma il tutto si esaurisce in un massimo di un paio di ore... ecco perchè scegliere fonti proteiche che si assimilano lentamente... i BCAA potrebbero andare bene come "spinta" iniziale ma poi devono essere supportati da pro a lento rilascio per poter tamponare il catabolismo notturno...
i BCAA potrebbero essere utili da soli se assunti per infusione continua ... ma è una metodica assurda e poco naturale!

Bye

[Degrelle]

bcca, fosfotidilserina e glutamina possono provocare agitazione; Prima di andare a dormire ritengo la melatonina con triptofano, gli integratori piu' importanti. Un sonno profondo e rigenerante e' il migliore integratore al mondo per eseguire allenamenti pesanti.

Saluti
D.