Ketosis

[Actionmaxne]

KETOSIS IS THE RESULT OF CARBOHYDRATE DEPRIVATION.
YOUR BODY REQUIRES ADEQUATE AMOUNT OF CARBOHYDRATES IN ORDER TO PROPERLY METABOLIZE BODY FAT.
AS SAYING GOES , "FAT IS BURNED IN THE FURNACE OF CARBOHYDRATES".
WHEN THERE IS NOT ENOUGH CARBOHYDRATE IN THE BODY FOR THIS PROCESS TO TAKE PLACE ( USUALLY AS A RESULT OF OVERLY STRICT WEIGHT LOSS DIET), THE BODY HAS TO TAKE EMERGENCY MEASURES.
THE PRIMARY SYMPTOM OF KETOSIS IS KENOTEMIA, THE APPEARANCE OF KETONE BODIES IN THE BLOOD.
KETONE BODIES ARE THE PRODUCT OF THE INCOMPLETE BURNING OF FATS.
THESE KETONES CAN BE USED IN PLACE OF GLYCOGEN FOR ENERGY PRODUCTION.

[robj]

inzomma... nun si cala una fava se non se magnano un pò di carbo?

anch'io la sapevo così, ma sta di fatto che è un mese e mezzo ormai che sono in rigida cheto, senza ricariche, mi trovo molto bene e sto calando di massa grassa, anche se lentamente...

è anche vero che bisognerebbe vedere se aggiungendo carbo calerei più velocemente

[Actionmaxne]

KETOSIS

KETONE BODIES CAN ALSO BE USED AS ENERGY TO FUEL BRAIN, AND NERVOUS SISTEM FUNCTION (WHICH OTHERWISE RELY ENTIRELY ON GLICOGEN).
THE PROBLEM IS THAT KETONE BODIES ARE NOT NEARLY, AS EFFICIENT IN FUELING EXERCISE AS GLICOGEN.
IN A PROLUNGED STATE OF KETOSIS, YOU TEND TO BE SLUGGISH, YOUR MENTAL PROCESS SUFFER AND YOUR BODY GRADUALLY BECOMES DEHYDRATED.
WORSE, IN ABSENSE OF CARBOHYDRATE YOUR BODY BEGINS TO METABOLIZE LARGER AND LARGER AMOUNT OF AMINO ACIDS.
(PROTEIN) FOR ADDITIONAL ENERGY.
THIS IS OBVIOUSLY HIGLY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE FOR ANYONE TRYING TO BUILT AND MAINTAIN A SOLID FOUNDATION OF MUSCLE MASS.

[Actionmaxne]

CAUTION

YOU HAVE TO INCREASE YOUR CARBO JUST A LITTLE BIT,
AND IN A LOT OF DAYS.
OR YOU HAVE TO TRY TO CICLIZATE, CHANGING EVERYDAY YOUR NUTRIENT AND YOUR CALORIES.
ALL THESE DON'T FALL IN A NEGATIVE FEEDBACK AND REEINCRASE YOUR BODY FAT %.
LET'S GO DON'T CHANGE, FOCUS, IMPROVMENT, ENERGY AND POWER, BUT BEFORE ALL," SHUT UP AND TRAIN"!!!!!!!!!..........

[MISTER X]

in italianoooo...questo è un forum in italiano.

[max_power]

I agree with you about the fact that the ketosis is a controproductive effect of a diet that is too poor of carbohydrate ( the range is 0 - 30 gr of carbo per day ). Many people consider the ketosis as a sign they're losing weight but it's not that way. Ketosis should be avoid because it's not a good condition of the body. When you're in ketosis you must firstly rise the total amount of fat, saturated too. This last kind of fats rise the possibility of heart deseases. And then, as you said Actiomaxne, you must rise the amount of proteins, because the body will use then to convert them in glucose, in lack of carbohydrates (gluconeogenesis). An exagerated amount of proteins may cause problems to kidneys and to the liver.

max_power

[robj]

prendiamo la pall... il post al balzo!!

è già da 2 settimane che sto pensando di terminare la cheto... ho continuato perché come ho già detto mi sento in ottima forma, non perdo massa magra e lentamente calo di %grasso

mi sembra il post giusto per parlare di questo: dopo quasi 6 settimane di cheto, come mi consigliate di ricominciare a reintrodurre carbo?

quali carbo, quanti carbo, quando carbo?

[marcolone]

ciao robberto
anche io sono un sostenitore de "i grassi bruciano sulla fiamma dei carbo".

io oggettivamente direi di andarew un po "controcorrente": 100 - 120 gr di carbo al giorno, dovrebbero workare e accellerarti la perdita de ciccio. prova a levare ovviamente le kcal dalla quota proteica se sei oltre ai 2 gr /kg .

ovviamente introduci i carbo con calma, direi in un range di 2 settimane, con una quota a salire.
prima al mattino, poi agli spuntini e alla fine anche a pranzo.

almeno noterai un aumento della "svegliezza mentale"

torno a laure'.

[robj]

Originally posted by marcolone
ovviamente introduci i carbo con calma, direi in un range di 2 settimane, con una quota a salire.
prima al mattino, poi agli spuntini e alla fine anche a pranzo.

quindi comincio prima introducendoli solo a colazione, poi anche a metà mattina e metà pomeriggio... e infine anche a pranzo?

interessante
come mai la scelta di reintrodurli prima con gli spuntini che col pranzo?

[marcolone]

per il semplice fatto che ho sbagliato a scrivere

colazione spuntino pranzo spuntillo e alla cena verduramento.

mi pare piu che onesta come cosa.

[robj]

Originally posted by marcolone
per il semplice fatto che ho sbagliato a scrivere

eh eh... e io che pensavo che fosse una cosa alternativa, un nuovo approccio trendy per reintrodurre carbo

thanx

[Actionmaxne]

SO... COOL

Originally posted by max_power
I agree with you about the fact that the ketosis is a controproductive effect of a diet that is too poor of carbohydrate ( the range is 0 - 30 gr of carbo per day ). Many people consider the ketosis as a sign they're losing weight but it's not that way. Ketosis should be avoid because it's not a good condition of the body. When you're in ketosis you must firstly rise the total amount of fat, saturated too. This last kind of fats rise the possibility of heart deseases. And then, as you said Actiomaxne, you must rise the amount of proteins, because the body will use then to convert them in glucose, in lack of carbohydrates (gluconeogenesis). An exagerated amount of proteins may cause problems to kidneys and to the liver.

max_power

YOU HAVE A GREAT ENLIGHTNEMENT
CONGRATULATION.
I AGREE EVERYTIME AND EVERYTHING WITH YOU.

[max_power]

Re: SO... COOL

Originally posted by Actionmaxne
YOU HAVE A GREAT ENLIGHTNEMENT
CONGRATULATION.
I AGREE EVERYTIME AND EVERYTHING WITH YOU.

You're very expert too . Really I'm not joking...congratulations !!!

max_power

[Actionmaxne]

THE RISK, IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY

The whole process of muscle protein catabolism and liver
gluconeogenesis is regulated principally by glucocorticosteroids and
glucagon and a relative lack of insulin. Early in fasting glycogen
reserves are depleted, and protein (mainly from muscle) becomes the major
source of carbon for glucose production. Glucose is required in
substantial amounts by blood cells and the central nervous system on a
daily basis. There is also an initiation of ketone body production by
the liver to provide a more water soluble form of fat-derived fuel."


THIS IS WHERE THE CONFUSION BEGINS

"A very similar adaption of protein and energy metabolism
occurs in persons consuming diets very low in carbohydrates, where there
is little or no glycogen reserve. However, in this instance, DIETARY
PROTEIN largely or fully SUBSTITUTES for muscle protein in gluconeogenesis.


NOTE: "DIETARY PROTEIN LARGELY OR FULLY SUBSTITUTES FOR MUSCLE PROTEIN IN GLUCONEOGENESIS."

Even when discussing starvation most critics of lowcarb miss the mentally adept
boat. "The body adapts to starvation and reduces the need for
protein-dependent gluconeogenesis by boosting its production of ketones,
a fuel ALTERNATIVE to glucose for MOST CELLS. Circulating ketones reach
maximum levels after about ten days of fasting and now substitute for
much of the glucose requirement of the central nervous system.
This drastically reduces the need for catabolism of muscle protein."


"With reduced protein catabolism, urinary nitrogen excretion also
declines. And there is a shift from the excretion of urea to a
predominance of ammonia loss. This shift toward ammonia versus urea
parallels the increased production and excretion of keto acids, and
serves to MAINTAIN ACID/BASE BALANCE."


"The overall point is that muscle is a valuable reserve of carbons
that can be used for glucose production when needed. However the body
prevents excessive losses of muscle protein over long periods of fasting
by adapting the central nervous system to utilization of ketone bodies
for fuel."


READ THIS AND WEEP ANTI-LOWCARBERS

"A parallel adaptation in the production and excretion of
ammonium ions by the kidney neutralizes the increased ketone bodies
(principally beta-hydroxybutyric and acetoacetic acids). Without the
latter adaptation, such large productions of keto acids would cause a
severe ketoacidosis, as well as a loss of large quantities of sodium and
potassium ions (accompanying ketones spilled into the urine)."


Therefore, unless one is an insulin dependent diabetic or literally starving
TO DEATH due to a lack of food, there is little or no danger from ketosis which
is not characterized by a simultaneous RISE IN BLOOD GLUCOSE and BLOOD ACIDITY.

[marcolone]

first of all, i beg your pardon for my sucky english...

i've asked myself a question when reading about ketos:

we know that our body tends to be adaptive to every shock we give to it, like muscle stimulation for ipertrophy, even for large amounts of carbo, or even cold ol sun (like sun tan).

now, assume that we put a body in a carbohydrate-starvation condition, with ketosis going on.

if we let this situation lasting for a certain amount of time, our body gets used to take energy from aminoacids.

but when we get back to reintroduce carbo on our diet, obviously reducing the protein intake, our body lasts in a fully-catabolic state, taking the protein he craves from the lean mass ?

if so, then we need to at least provide to our body a limited amount of carbo, the mere need to avoid ketosis, so that this "catabolic rebound" gets a little less harder and even speeding up fat burning.

i'm really interested on your response.