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  • francesco_espo
    Stressbuilder
    • Aug 2008
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    Per tutti gli amanti dei pochi pasti giornalieri (si ringrazia menphis per averlo postato in experimental):

    Investigating Optimal Protein Frequency:
    The Nemesis Of High-Protein Meals Has A Name— And Its Name Is ‘Refractory’
    By Layne Norton

    There are a few things in bodybuilding that are just accepted as fact; they are beyond reproach or question. We all KNOW that to optimize mass gains, it is crucial to consume adequate amounts of high-quality protein. We all KNOW that the best way to consume high protein intakes is to spread them out into small frequent meals, to keep amino acid levels elevated constantly, in order to constantly keep ourselves in a state of anabolism. We know that eight meals per day is the best way to go! We are ALL WRONG!
    How often protein should be consumed is just as important as how much should be consumed at each meal, as the summation of the anabolic response to the meal is not only how high the response peaks, but how long the response lasts. In other words, when a high-protein meal induces an increase in protein synthesis, how long does that response last and when can you stimulate it again? This will determine optimal meal frequency to maximize anabolism.
    Our lab has demonstrated that the anabolic response to a complete meal containing protein, carbohydrates and fats peaks at 90 minutes and returns to baseline by 3 hours.1 So that makes it easy, right? We should just eat every 3 hours. Well, before you go running off with this information, read the rest of what I have to say. What is REALLY interesting about our findings is that while protein synthesis had returned to baseline after 3 hours, plasma amino acid levels were still elevated above baseline and plasma leucine (the amino acid responsible for increasing protein synthesis) was elevated almost 3x above baseline!
    Accordingly, the activation of the mTOR pathway (mTOR activation initiates protein synthesis) was still maximized at 3 hours, whereas protein synthesis had returned to baseline. Thus, increases in plasma leucine were able to trigger mTOR signaling and protein synthesis, but sustained elevations of plasma leucine and mTOR signaling were not sufficient to maintain elevated protein synthesis. This suggests a ‘refractory’ response of protein synthesis to prolonged elevations in plasma amino acids. Bohe et al. also demonstrated the refractory response to constant elevations in amino acids during a 6-hour infusion of essential amino acids.2 The infusion produced constant elevations in plasma EAAs; however, protein synthesis lasted only 2 hours and could not be further stimulated during the 6-hour period.
    It is unlikely that eating another meal 2-3 hours after the first meal would be sufficient to increase protein synthesis again, since amino acid levels are already elevated. Therefore, in order to avoid refractoriness and maximize anabolism, it may be best to consume larger doses of protein to maximize protein synthesis, while allowing enough time (4-6 hours) for amino acid levels to fall between meals, in order to resensitize the system.
    Now I’ve probably shocked you so much that you spit your protein shake out all over your magazine and now you are cursing me for 1) ruining your new issue of MD, and 2) telling you the bodybuilding meal-eating protocol you’ve been following for so long may not be optimal for making gains! You worked so hard for so long, to ensure that you were always getting a constant level of amino acids in and now you’re being told that this refractory jerk is saying all your efforts are for naught! Well, I apologize for ruining your magazine, but I won’t apologize for busting on musclehead dogma— that is just what I do.
    One possible mechanism to explain refractoriness (it really is a word, I checked), is that there is a membrane-bound protein stat, either extracellular or intracellular, which is sensitive to relative CHANGES in amino acid concentrations, rather than absolute concentrations. In this case, producing constant elevations in plasma amino acids would produce a refractory response, as an unchanging elevation in amino acids would not be sufficient to activate the protein. One possible way to overcome this would be to consume a sizable dose of free-form amino acids in between meals to produce a rapid supraphysiological increase in plasma amino acids, which would also quickly decrease, to re-sensitize the system.
    Another possible explanation for refractoriness may involve insulin. The time course of plasma insulin in our study seemed to track protein synthesis.1 Bohe et al. also showed a similar pattern during their infusion study.2 While increasing insulin is not required to initiate protein synthesis, it does maximize the anabolic response to amino acids.3,4 Perhaps elevations in plasma insulin are required to MAINTAIN protein synthesis after a meal. If this is true, it is likely that the mechanism is independent of insulin’s effects on the mTOR pathway, as our lab demonstrated that the refractory response can occur even when mTOR signaling remains elevated.1 While insulin is not required to initiate protein synthesis, it is known to stimulate peptide elongation (the elongation of a growing protein as it is synthesized) in skeletal muscle.5 If declining plasma insulin concentrations reduce peptide elongation, it could possibly ‘short-circuit’ protein synthesis and explain refractoriness.
    Consistent with both of these theories, Paddon-Jones et al. fed three high-protein meals, spaced 5 hours apart, with or without a 15-gram essential amino acid/30-gram carbohydrate supplement in between each meal and measured the anabolic response to each treatment.6 They found that over the course of the day, the group that consumed the supplement had a greater anabolic response than the group that did not receive the supplement. Perhaps consumption of the free-form amino acid supplement along with carbohydrate was sufficient to overcome the refractory response, or the supplement merely optimized the anabolic response to each meal.
    In either case, it appears that consuming larger doses of protein spaced further apart (4-6 hours), while supplementing with a free-form amino acid and carbohydrate supplement between meals, is an effective way to maximize muscle protein synthesis and possibly overcome the refractory response.
    It is criminal to steal a purse, daring to steal a fortune, a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases.

    Commenta

    • nomoretrouble
      Crazy..... taaaazzzz!
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      • divemaster
        Dave Team
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        ....ho finito le whey PD

        ...mi aspettano 6 colazioni con gli albumi....
        PER NON DIMENTICARE:
        Originariamente Scritto da gabriele81
        Bam non ha senso stare con una che si fa piazzare ben 4 bordate da uno con un membro equino. Dai retta a Sergio.

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        • DNP
          CHEMICAL MODERATOR
          • Apr 2005
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          Originariamente Scritto da salsa Visualizza Messaggio
          Vabbe' li ero in massa ora sono un Po più tirato

          Ps
          Ne senti la mancanza eh....
          Quasi quasi mi iscrivo di là...
          Lascio DNP o mi loggo Equitalia?
          “Un farmaco, che si sostiene non provochi alcun effetto collaterale, molto probabilmente non possiede alcun effetto terapeutico”
          G. Kuschinsky

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          • divemaster
            Dave Team
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            Originariamente Scritto da DNP Visualizza Messaggio
            Quasi quasi mi iscrivo di là...
            Lascio DNP o mi loggo Equitalia?
            Equitalia, per forza!!!
            PER NON DIMENTICARE:
            Originariamente Scritto da gabriele81
            Bam non ha senso stare con una che si fa piazzare ben 4 bordate da uno con un membro equino. Dai retta a Sergio.

            Commenta

            • salsa
              Bodyweb Zenior
              • Jun 2008
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              Originariamente Scritto da divemaster Visualizza Messaggio
              ....ho finito le whey PD

              ...mi aspettano 6 colazioni con gli albumi....
              Ahahahahaha che ammericano sei non ti piacciono gli albumi .....falli fritti magari con pancetta...

              Originariamente Scritto da DNP Visualizza Messaggio
              Quasi quasi mi iscrivo di là...
              Lascio DNP o mi loggo Equitalia?
              Equitalia rulez ma nn credo che dureresti troppo.....
              I guai da pignàta i sapa a cucchijàra chi i manìja.

              Commenta

              • DNP
                CHEMICAL MODERATOR
                • Apr 2005
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                Originariamente Scritto da francesco_espo Visualizza Messaggio
                Per tutti gli amanti dei pochi pasti giornalieri (si ringrazia menphis per averlo postato in experimental):

                Investigating Optimal Protein Frequency:
                The Nemesis Of High-Protein Meals Has A Name— And Its Name Is ‘Refractory’
                By Layne Norton

                There are a few things in bodybuilding that are just accepted as fact; they are beyond reproach or question. We all KNOW that to optimize mass gains, it is crucial to consume adequate amounts of high-quality protein. We all KNOW that the best way to consume high protein intakes is to spread them out into small frequent meals, to keep amino acid levels elevated constantly, in order to constantly keep ourselves in a state of anabolism. We know that eight meals per day is the best way to go! We are ALL WRONG!
                How often protein should be consumed is just as important as how much should be consumed at each meal, as the summation of the anabolic response to the meal is not only how high the response peaks, but how long the response lasts. In other words, when a high-protein meal induces an increase in protein synthesis, how long does that response last and when can you stimulate it again? This will determine optimal meal frequency to maximize anabolism.
                Our lab has demonstrated that the anabolic response to a complete meal containing protein, carbohydrates and fats peaks at 90 minutes and returns to baseline by 3 hours.1 So that makes it easy, right? We should just eat every 3 hours. Well, before you go running off with this information, read the rest of what I have to say. What is REALLY interesting about our findings is that while protein synthesis had returned to baseline after 3 hours, plasma amino acid levels were still elevated above baseline and plasma leucine (the amino acid responsible for increasing protein synthesis) was elevated almost 3x above baseline!
                Accordingly, the activation of the mTOR pathway (mTOR activation initiates protein synthesis) was still maximized at 3 hours, whereas protein synthesis had returned to baseline. Thus, increases in plasma leucine were able to trigger mTOR signaling and protein synthesis, but sustained elevations of plasma leucine and mTOR signaling were not sufficient to maintain elevated protein synthesis. This suggests a ‘refractory’ response of protein synthesis to prolonged elevations in plasma amino acids. Bohe et al. also demonstrated the refractory response to constant elevations in amino acids during a 6-hour infusion of essential amino acids.2 The infusion produced constant elevations in plasma EAAs; however, protein synthesis lasted only 2 hours and could not be further stimulated during the 6-hour period.
                It is unlikely that eating another meal 2-3 hours after the first meal would be sufficient to increase protein synthesis again, since amino acid levels are already elevated. Therefore, in order to avoid refractoriness and maximize anabolism, it may be best to consume larger doses of protein to maximize protein synthesis, while allowing enough time (4-6 hours) for amino acid levels to fall between meals, in order to resensitize the system.
                Now I’ve probably shocked you so much that you spit your protein shake out all over your magazine and now you are cursing me for 1) ruining your new issue of MD, and 2) telling you the bodybuilding meal-eating protocol you’ve been following for so long may not be optimal for making gains! You worked so hard for so long, to ensure that you were always getting a constant level of amino acids in and now you’re being told that this refractory jerk is saying all your efforts are for naught! Well, I apologize for ruining your magazine, but I won’t apologize for busting on musclehead dogma— that is just what I do.
                One possible mechanism to explain refractoriness (it really is a word, I checked), is that there is a membrane-bound protein stat, either extracellular or intracellular, which is sensitive to relative CHANGES in amino acid concentrations, rather than absolute concentrations. In this case, producing constant elevations in plasma amino acids would produce a refractory response, as an unchanging elevation in amino acids would not be sufficient to activate the protein. One possible way to overcome this would be to consume a sizable dose of free-form amino acids in between meals to produce a rapid supraphysiological increase in plasma amino acids, which would also quickly decrease, to re-sensitize the system.
                Another possible explanation for refractoriness may involve insulin. The time course of plasma insulin in our study seemed to track protein synthesis.1 Bohe et al. also showed a similar pattern during their infusion study.2 While increasing insulin is not required to initiate protein synthesis, it does maximize the anabolic response to amino acids.3,4 Perhaps elevations in plasma insulin are required to MAINTAIN protein synthesis after a meal. If this is true, it is likely that the mechanism is independent of insulin’s effects on the mTOR pathway, as our lab demonstrated that the refractory response can occur even when mTOR signaling remains elevated.1 While insulin is not required to initiate protein synthesis, it is known to stimulate peptide elongation (the elongation of a growing protein as it is synthesized) in skeletal muscle.5 If declining plasma insulin concentrations reduce peptide elongation, it could possibly ‘short-circuit’ protein synthesis and explain refractoriness.
                Consistent with both of these theories, Paddon-Jones et al. fed three high-protein meals, spaced 5 hours apart, with or without a 15-gram essential amino acid/30-gram carbohydrate supplement in between each meal and measured the anabolic response to each treatment.6 They found that over the course of the day, the group that consumed the supplement had a greater anabolic response than the group that did not receive the supplement. Perhaps consumption of the free-form amino acid supplement along with carbohydrate was sufficient to overcome the refractory response, or the supplement merely optimized the anabolic response to each meal.
                In either case, it appears that consuming larger doses of protein spaced further apart (4-6 hours), while supplementing with a free-form amino acid and carbohydrate supplement between meals, is an effective way to maximize muscle protein synthesis and possibly overcome the refractory response.
                Espo di queste cose ne parlavamo sul diario già tempo fà........... Vincent Sekko Simeone ma fatto du palle per sta cosa dei pochi pasti giornalieri.
                Per i ringraziamenti a Memphis ti devi rivolgere sul sito: BBhomosekko.it
                “Un farmaco, che si sostiene non provochi alcun effetto collaterale, molto probabilmente non possiede alcun effetto terapeutico”
                G. Kuschinsky

                Commenta

                • DORIAN
                  Wanna dance mod
                  • Jan 2006
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                  IF for life...
                  sigpic

                  Commenta

                  • salsa
                    Bodyweb Zenior
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                    Originariamente Scritto da DORIAN Visualizza Messaggio
                    IF for life...
                    I guai da pignàta i sapa a cucchijàra chi i manìja.

                    Commenta

                    • otrebla1984
                      YEP
                      • Nov 2006
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                      Originariamente Scritto da menphisdaemon
                      La prima regola è mai rapportarsi a modelli inarrivabili.

                      ju ma bro in senso proprio bro?.. no perche vi assomigliate parecchio di fisico ( non intendo le masse, ma le linee ecc)

                      Bo, penso siano le schede...



                      Commenta

                      • divemaster
                        Dave Team
                        • Nov 2004
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                        Originariamente Scritto da salsa Visualizza Messaggio
                        Ahahahahaha che ammericano sei non ti piacciono gli albumi .....falli fritti magari con pancetta...


                        Equitalia rulez ma nn credo che dureresti troppo.....
                        li bevo già crudi...lascia perde....
                        PER NON DIMENTICARE:
                        Originariamente Scritto da gabriele81
                        Bam non ha senso stare con una che si fa piazzare ben 4 bordate da uno con un membro equino. Dai retta a Sergio.

                        Commenta

                        • nomoretrouble
                          Crazy..... taaaazzzz!
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                          Originariamente Scritto da divemaster Visualizza Messaggio
                          li bevo già crudi...lascia perde....
                          **** ti lamenti tu.... ne sto facendo fuori una bottiglia al giorno

                          Commenta

                          • Bellero
                            Bodyweb Advanced
                            • Nov 2005
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                            giorno

                            ---------- Post added at 13:48:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:38:52 ----------

                            Originariamente Scritto da DNP Visualizza Messaggio
                            Quasi quasi mi iscrivo di là...
                            Lascio DNP o mi loggo Equitalia?
                            se vuoi camuffarti metterei "IL SEKKO"....e non è uno di romanzo criminale
                            "è una vergogna per un uomo invecchiare senza vedere la bellezza e la forza di cui il suo corpo è capace" (Socrate)

                            Commenta

                            • francesco_espo
                              Stressbuilder
                              • Aug 2008
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                              Originariamente Scritto da DNP Visualizza Messaggio
                              Espo di queste cose ne parlavamo sul diario già tempo fà........... Vincent Sekko Simeone ma fatto du palle per sta cosa dei pochi pasti giornalieri.
                              Per i ringraziamenti a Memphis ti devi rivolgere sul sito: BBhomosekko.it
                              ottimo faccio una ricerca con keywords "secco, pasti da immondi"

                              vince se ci sei dammi un feed

                              Originariamente Scritto da DORIAN Visualizza Messaggio
                              IF for life...
                              immagino il piacere psico-fisico che provi dopo anni di pasti su pasti..
                              It is criminal to steal a purse, daring to steal a fortune, a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases.

                              Commenta

                              • salsa
                                Bodyweb Zenior
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                                Originariamente Scritto da otrebla1984 Visualizza Messaggio
                                We Alb...

                                Originariamente Scritto da divemaster Visualizza Messaggio
                                li bevo già crudi...lascia perde....
                                Originariamente Scritto da nomoretrouble Visualizza Messaggio
                                **** ti lamenti tu.... ne sto facendo fuori una bottiglia al giorno
                                ma crudi non vi stomacano....poi....niente disturbi a voi?
                                I guai da pignàta i sapa a cucchijàra chi i manìja.

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