bill starr

[khazar]

ciao a tutti , sono rimasto molto affascinato dall' allenamento di bill starr pesante leggero medio , e volevo alcuni consigli su come funzionasse , allora diciamo che la scheda che ho in mente è questa : LUN giorno pesante (5x5+1x8): 60/70/80/90/100/80% MER giorno leggero (5x5): 60/65/70/75/80%VEN gionro medio (5x5+1x8): 60/70/80/85/90/75%le percentuali sono riferite al 6 RMallora gli esercizi che volevo utilizzare sono lo squat , la panca e il rematore , per quanto riguarda il peso da utilizzare , penso di partire con un po piu di buffer, a questo punto pero avrei delle domande, innanzittutto non riesco a trovare da nessuna parte quanti siano i minuti di recupero , lo scarico ogni quanto andrebbe fatto? , piu o meno quanto è il sovracarico che dovrei utilizzare nel giorno pesante , ho letto 2 / 4 kg va bene?? ps ma perchè non riesco a mettere faccine , non me le fa cliccare ???

[vabo74]

le pause sono sui 2-3', in base agli esercizi
la qualità regna sovrana
bada bene: dire che fai un 5 x 5 è fuorviante
mi spiego meglio
se fai 60%6RM sollevi il 50%1RM: è riscaldamento
se sollevi il 70%6RM sollevi il 57%1RM: è riscaldamento
con l'80% sei già al 66%1RM.. tra il riscaldamento e l'inizio dell'allenamento
Morale?
capisco Bill Starr ma faresti solo un 2 x 5
Meglio se facessi ad esempio 90%6RM, 100%6RM, 90%6RM (3 serie così dopo il riscaldamento)
La serie da 8 rps la faresti con un carico basso tipo il 60-65%1RM ma devi decollare
Nel giorno medio nn dovresti pensare a quell'andamento di quintuple ma fare solo 2 serie (quelle da 80%6RM e 90%6RM) e aggiungere una tripla
(102%5RM)
a limite aggiungi 2 serie da 5 con il 60%
avresti per il goirno medio
5 @ (65%1RM, 75%1RM)
3 @ 87%1RM
2 x 5 @ 60%

I carichi?
dipende da quando vuoi il record
ad esempio se lo vuoi dopo due settimane ricerchi il record alla seconda settimana
se lo vuoi in tre, devi calare di un po' i carichi rispetto a quelli che hai ed ho indicato

==========
se fai lo squat pesante al lunedì, fatti un allenamento leggero o medio di panca e rematore nello stesso giorno (segui sempre il sistema HLM ma nn coincidente con lo squat)
Aggiungi tra i complementari il GM e lo split squat per la parte inf e parallele e trazioni (o lat machine) per la parte sup

Lo scarico?
basta che ti faccia il giorno leggero nel giorno pesante alla quarta o quinta settimana

Variazioni sul tema?
I settimana
lavoro su quintuple
II settimana
Lavori su triple
III settimana
lavoro su singole

ancora
variazioni di quintuple tra giorno H, L ed M per i mesocicli strutturali

e così via

BUON DIVERTIMENTO!

Nel giorno medio invece di fare

[Naransa]

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

[vabo74]

grandi link
grazie

[vabo74]

Bill Starr 5x5

Linear Version for Intermediate Lifters

This program is based on weekly linear progress. You take your current 5 rep maxes (5RM) and work up to them systematically by increasing weights in steady increments over 3-4 weeks. You then hit your current 5RM on lifts and continue these incremental increases week to week which pushes you further and further out making new personal records (PRs) every week until you stall on the majority of your lifts. If you miss reps, keep the weight constant the next week and don't move it up until you get all 5x5. When you eventually stall on the majority of lifts, and you will, meaning something like several weeks of no progress in that you can't add reps or weight, you'll have to reset lower back several weeks and begin again. If it's just one lift that has you stuck, reset on that and work up again but don't restart the whole program. When restarting the whole program, a lot of times changing variables is also helpful here. I'm not going to cover that. Training is a blend of art and science, and knowing what parameters to change for a given lifter is more art. This is a cookie-cutter, it's meant to get you big and strong, and more importantly training correctly. The best programs are always tailored to a given trainee so being your own coach, you have to learn and seek out knowledge (generally not in bodybuilding sources as a rule and this will seldom do you wrong).

Rep speed is natural, time between sets is what you need. Don't rapid fire compound lifts but don't be lazy. 2-5 minutes is probably right with 5 minutes being needed after a very taxing effort.



Monday Squat5x5 =>Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)



Wednesday Squat4x5First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set again


Friday Squat4x5, 1x3, 1x8/ First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8

[vabo74]

come è stato scritto sopra, sono falsi 5 x 5 e le serie da considerare sono solo 2 (il mercoledì in pratica ci si riscalda e basta)
il venerdì si fa solo una quintupla e una tripla (io penserei anche ad una doppia se uno pensa che possa essere faticosa) per preparare il SN al carico di lunedì
il 5 x 5 classico suggerisce di progredire settimana per settimana ma nulla vieta di farlo ogni 10 gg oppure 14!

[vabo74]

suggerisco altresì di ruotare le intensità (come scritto) e quindi se si fa squat pesante il lunedì, di nn fare pesanti gli altri esercizi in questo giorno

[vabo74]

Bill Starr - Glenn Pendlay 5x5
Periodized Version for Advanced Lifters
Intro to Periodization

Volume/Loading Phase - Weeks 1-4:

So 5x5 is 5 sets of 5 reps with working set weight (warm up to the target weight for the week and proceed through 5x5 with that weight). Where 1x5 is present you are ramping the weights upward each set to a target set weight for a single set of 5 (it's still 5x5 but each set gets heavier and your target set is the top set of 5). The exception is the Wednesday squat for 5x5 using somewhere between 10-20% less than the working weight on the Monday 5x5 workout (the Wed squat may increase less than the Monday squat over the ramping weeks - meaning it may start at 12% less and wind up at 22% less by the last record week if one needs some extra recovery). What you are doing is gradually increasing the target weights week to week so you wind up performing record lifts in the final two weeks of the volume phase (weeks 3/4 in this case). If you miss a weight, hold it constant for the next week by carrying it forward (you should not be missing until weeks 3/4 though). Keep in mind that you have separate targets for 5x5 and 1x5 even though they are the same lift (i.e. bench press). The ramping is set separately for these and they are treated separately. It's a good idea to start conservatively as this gets fairly backbreaking and you'll be begging for week 5. The most common mistake is people starting too high. It's useful to start light and then be flexible either adding an extra week to the ramp up or moving your targets a bit as you feel your way. This is far easier in the intensity phase because you already have a reference - likewise the next time you run this workout, it'll be a no brainer. The main point in this phase is the volume. Lower the weight if need be but get the sets and reps in. If you fail on an exercise just carry the target weight forward into the next week. Some people who are new to this might find it easier to run this phase for 6 weeks starting much lighter and building slowly. If your working weights for the deadlift are 2x bodyweight (meaning you are a 200lbs lifter and you'll be doing 400+ for 5x5 throughout the cycle) it's probably a good idea to do lower the volume on that lift to 3x5 in this phase.

The easiest way to set this up the first time is to put current PRs in week 3 (with more experience and relevant lifts you might have new PR goals in both weeks 3 and 4). Your 5RM can be calculated and just drop off a given percentage for your 5x5RM (try 7.5% maybe) you get a week 3 figure for those lifts. Now back down to week 1. A conservative number to start with might be 80% of your Week 3 PR lift then split the difference for Week 2. If you are really strong (and jumps are large), you might need more weeks to ramp up. What you don't want to do is start too high, you can always tack on another week but if you start too high you blow the progression. Anyway, week 4 lifts are a margin above week 3, maybe 5%. It's important to plan it out and then play it by ear as you go, adjust where need be so that you culminate with the 2 final weeks. If that means starting lighter and running for 6 weeks that's fine. If that means, you thought 4 weeks was fine but you were unexpectedly stronger (or got stronger during this phase) and need to add an extra week to avoid a big jump, that's okay too - just be very conscious of fatigue level. Your first time through you'll feel pretty beat up after the last week, that's okay. If you are beat up entering the 2nd to last week, that's something to watch. You want to 'overreach' which is before overtraining. Sometimes you'll encounter a performance deficit and not be able to set PRs (very common for advanced athletes loading hard), without experience though you don't want to push it too hard and overdo it - takes too damn long to recover from.
LOADINGDELOADING AND INTENSIFICATION Volume PhaseOption 1: Deload and Peak 3x3OROption 2: Pure Deload Weeks 1-4Weeks 5-9 Weeks 5-6 or Extended MondayMonday MondaySquat5x53x3 3x3Bench1x51x3 3x3Row1x51x3 3x3 WednesdayWednesday Wednesday or ThursdaySquat5x5 (10-20% < than Monday)Drop This Lift 3x3 with 70% of MondayDeadlift5x53x3 3x3Military or Incline5x53x3 3x3Pull-ups or Chins5x53x3 3x3 FridayFriday Squat1x51x3 Bench5x53x3 Row5x53x3


OPTION 1 - Deload and Peak 3x3:

This option provides for deloading in the middle weeks and working toward new PRs in the final weeks (think of it as almost 2 loading phases as the 2nd will likely fatigue you by the time you are done). This makes it a bit harder to handle particularly for first timers. In addition, trainees might need a light week or two before moving back into another loading period.

Deloading Week - Week 5:
On week 5 drop the Wednesday squat workout, begin using the Deloading/Intensity set/rep scheme, and keep the weight the same as your last week in the Volume Phase. In reality the whole intensity phase and this week are the same thing, I just break this week out because there is no weight progression so in reality after the volume phase the whole thing is deloading/intensity which for the purposes of this workout are synonymous. Also my 3x per week layout tends to get pretty aggressive as many find themselves fatigued again by the end so it kind of makes logical sense to break this period separately. Largely semantics.

Intensification Phase - Week 6-9:
Everything is the same principal except that you use 3x3 and 1x3 setting records on week 8 and 9 (or the final 2 weeks of this phase). No Wednesday squatting. It's important that you recover before getting into the heavy weight PRs again so if you have to keep Week 6 light, go ahead. The important aspect of this phase is the weight increases. If you are burned out and you need an extra day here and there that's okay - this won't hurt you at all and unless you are feeling ripe it might well be beneficial. If you can't do all the work that's okay too. Just keep increasing the weight week to week. It might also help to keep the first week in this phase just incrementally higher than the Deloading Week to provide for extra recovery if needed. During this phase you'll be ramping the weights from your deloading week to your 3x3 and 1x3 records in the final 2 weeks. In this 3x per week pattern, start light once again and get a breather. Taking extra days or cutting out volume isn’t encouraged but if you need extra recovery do it and then adjust your future training plans accordingly. If you don’t get an adequate deload first (that 1 week may not be enough) you will cripple your gains. Better to get 90% out of a training cycle than 10%. You'll learn a lot about your tolerance for volume loading and unloading here - there is no need to try to be a hero. Get some experience and the next time you run this you'll be spot on but you wind up feeling your way to a degree the first time.

Post Cycle:
Depending upon how you feel, it's probably a good idea to deload again before moving back into another volume phase if you ran the 3x per week like I outlined above. See the alternative schedule below and perform this light for 2 weeks working on speed/acceleration. If you ran the 2x alternate schedule below for your deload/intensity you can likely move straight back into another volume phase.

OPTION 2 - Pure Deload:

This is designed to get you recovered without too much hassle or worry. Frequency is dropped to 2x per week and the Friday workout is dropped. The Wednesday workout can be moved to Thursday if desired. This phase can be run as long as needed to recover or until one wants to do something else. Maybe that's 1-2 weeks for some people to build enough steam to jump back into a loading phase. Maybe that's 4-5 weeks if someone feels they are really getting a lot out of it.

Week 5 and on switch to 3x3 and drop the Friday workout altogether. Week 5 weights are the same as the final week of loading. Over the following weeks increase the weight workout to workout if you get all 9 reps. If you don't get all the reps, keep the weight constant. You'll likely be able to move straight back into another volume phase after this is complete. As for the increases week to week, probably best to use a percentage but to make it easy for first timers maybe add 5lbs to benches and rows then 10lbs to squats and deads.

[vabo74]

nn conoscevo questa variante ma grosso modo &#232; la classica variante di schema ipertrofia->forza
prendiamo un classico schema raccomandato (pure da me)
Sed I
8 x 5 @ 65%

Sed II
3 x 5 @65%

Sed III
2 x 1 @ 85%. 2 x 2 @ 80%, 2 x 3 @ 75%, 2 x 5 @ 65%

chiaramente per la III Seduta si incrementeranno i carichi delle singole mentre i carichi sarannoaumentati solo per la I in pratica

Nel meso successivo ci si concentra pi&#249; su doppie e triple
interessante &#232; notare come si prendono due settimane di scarico per arrivare a reincominciare a tirare davvero sino all'8a e 9a settimana (quelli dei cariconi)

[khazar]

grazie valerio , i tuoi consigli mi sono molto preziosi , e grazie anche a naransa per i link , ho da studiare parecchio a quanto pare , ora vedo di buttare giu qualcosina di meglio!!!ot : ho dei problemi con il forum per mandare un reply devo aggiornare la pagina tremila volte , dopo che ho aggiornato pero mi da altri problemi del tipo che nn mi fa mettere le faccine e problemi di intestazione , che devo fare , se non riesco a risolvere questi problemi come posso poi rompervi le palle

[RolloTommasi]

Ho applicato questo variazione del protocollo di BS oltre che su me stesso anche su qualche mio allievo.
Se fatto a dovere funziona, sempre!