ibridi forza-massa

**mr.dreams** · 28-07-2007, 21:30:30

***Marco pl*** · 29-07-2007, 12:43:44

da quanto è che fai il bill starr?

**mr.dreams** · 29-07-2007, 15:09:04

lunedi dovrei iniare la quinta settimana...

***Marco pl*** · 29-07-2007, 17:15:41

Ma perchè cerchi un approccio preconfezionato e nn te ne inventi uno tu?

**mr.dreams** · 29-07-2007, 20:09:15

bè, perchè credo che programmi preparati da preparatori atletici, già provati e testatii, funzionino meglio...guarda il bill star, alla maggior parte dà grandi successi...cmq possibile che ci sia solamente il bill star per dare forza e massa in contemporanea? quali altri metodi esistono?

ho provato a fare un search ed ho trovato un programma di reg park inventato apposta per arnold swazhnegger negli anni '50

Mon -Wed_Fri

Barbell Curl 4x6-8

Seated Behind Neck Press 4x6-8

Bench Press 5x5

Barbell Row 4x6-8

Barbell Squat 5x5

Deadlift 5x5

ma purtroppo non ho trovato da alcuna parte come funziona
oppure un'altro di mark rippetoe autore di starting strenght:

Example:

Week 1:

Monday - Workout A
Wednesday -Workout B
Friday - Workout A

Week 2:

Monday - Workout B
Wednesday - Workout A
Friday - Workout B

Etc.

For the actual workouts read below:

Note: This doesn’t include warm-up sets

**Means this is OPTIONAL**

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
**2x8 Dips (if you cant do these or no assist machine then do Decline Dumbbell Bench Press with your hands Facing each other)

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Pendlay or Bent Rows (or power cleans)
**2x8 Chin-ups (recommended mainly if doing the cleans)

Assistance work:

Most people cant get it through there head that compound lifts also work your arms Plenty and always Insist on direct arm work. As quoted by Madcow2, “Don't **** with this. Every bodybuilder seems to have Attention Deficit Disorder and an overwhelming desire to customize everything.” If you are one of these people note that you have the option of doing the dips and chins which give PLENTY of arm work. Abdominal work is fine to do also if needed.

I recommend weighted decline sit-ups and/or Hanging Leg Raises at 2x8-10.

Weight:

As for the weight, make sure that you use the SAME weight throughout the sets. For example if I do the first set if Squats with 200lbs then I do the other 2 sets of squats with 200lbs.

Every week make it a goal to increase each of your lifts by 2.5%. Meaning if I lifted 100lbs for my Bench Week 1 then Week 2 I would try for 102.5lbs. If I did 200lb Squats Week 1 I would try for 205lbs in Week 2. Sometimes you will be able to do more but don’t mess with your form just to lift more.

Warm-up Sets:

Before all your working sets it is best to do a few warm-up sets. Specifically for your first lift. You don’t have to do the whole thing for the other lifts but definitely the first.

What you do is you ramp your weight up to your working sets.

For example:

2x5xbar (sets x reps x weight)
1x5x85
1x3x125
1x2x155

And the working set weight would be 175.

If you are lifting your working sets under 150 I would cut out the 3rd warmup set of 1x5 because it wont be needed.

non sò, io per ora ho trovato questi...qualcuno li conosce, gli ha provati, possono essere validi quanto il bill star 5x5?

**Zuccone** · 30-07-2007, 01:53:46

Sembra sempre che cerchi la ricetta miracolosa...nessuno potrai mai dirti cosa è meglio o cosa è peggio.
Poi dici che ti trovi bene con il5x5bs che i carichi vanno su ma vuoi cambiare

Bah....dai un'occhiata qui comunque

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http://www.olympian.it/on/57_9.cfm

**mr.dreams** · 30-07-2007, 18:05:50

bè, è chiaro, cerco il più possibile di evitare di fare cose con il rischio di non essere producenti, ma cerco subito di andare subito sul sicuro....inoltre, se leggi bene, lo vorrei cambiare perchè il suo effetto sta finendo....quelli su olympian di stone e del korte gli avete mai provati?

**Zuccone** · 30-07-2007, 18:13:56

Originariamente Scritto da mr.dreams Visualizza Messaggio

bè, è chiaro, cerco il più possibile di evitare di fare cose con il rischio di non essere producenti, ma cerco subito di andare subito sul sicuro....inoltre, se leggi bene, lo vorrei cambiare perchè il suo effetto sta finendo....quelli su olympian di stone e del korte gli avete mai provati?

Il korte di solito è più adatto come "forza" fatta in funzione di un altro sport

***Bob Terwilliger*** · 30-07-2007, 18:39:10

Originariamente Scritto da mr.dreams Visualizza Messaggio

lunedi dovrei iniare la quinta settimana...

Fai un programma per 4 settimane con ottimi risultati, poi c'è un vistoso rallentamento. Che fare? Mi rendo conto che una settimana di scarico è troppo scontato

**Zuccone** · 30-07-2007, 18:41:25

In quel tipo di allenamento è previsto lo stallo e son previste le varianti pre protarlo per molto tempo...poi fai tu...non sentirti pronto non so che significhi...

**mr.dreams** · 30-07-2007, 21:05:22

quindi mi consigliate una settimana di scarico, poi ripartire con una delle 3 varianti? ok, buona idea, ma se volessi fare un cambiamento radicale ed affidarmi ad un'altro programma del genere, quale scegliere?

**mr.dreams** · 30-07-2007, 21:35:40

x zuccone: non mi sento ancora pronto per affrontare questo

Before beginning it is useful to know your 1 rep maxes or more ideally your real 5 rep max in each lift (there is a table and calculator in the TOC). You can base your 5x5 max off your 5 rep max just by cutting back a bit. If you don't know this - it might be useful to test your lifts first or start light and allow for some flexibility in the weekly planning so you can make adjustments on the fly as you ramp the weights week to week to across the board records in the final weeks of the volume phase. Don't overly stress on this - it's easier than it sounds and once you've run it once, subsequent cycles fall right into place.

LOADINGDELOADING AND INTENSIFICATION Volume PhaseOption 1: Deload and Peak 3x3OROption 2: Pure Deload Weeks 1-4Weeks 5-9 Weeks 5-6 or Extended MondayMonday MondaySquat5x53x3 3x3Bench1x51x3 3x3Row1x51x3 3x3 WednesdayWednesday Wednesday or ThursdaySquat5x5 (10-20% < than Monday)Drop This Lift 3x3 with 70% of MondayDeadlift5x53x3 3x3Military or Incline5x53x3 3x3Pull-ups or Chins5x53x3 3x3 FridayFriday Squat1x51x3 Bench5x53x3 Row5x53x3

Clarifying Examples (numbers are random - do not read anything into this) Set 1Set 2Set 3Set 4Set 55x5 =Straight Sets315x5315x5315x5315x5315x53x3 =Straight Sets315x3315x3315x3 1x5 =Ramped Sets225x5255x5275x5295x5315x51x3 =Ramped Sets275x3295x3315x3

Volume/Loading Phase - Weeks 1-4:

So 5x5 is 5 sets of 5 reps with working set weight (warm up to the target weight for the week and proceed through 5x5 with that weight). Where 1x5 is present you are ramping the weights upward each set to a target set weight for a single set of 5 (it's still 5x5 but each set gets heavier and your target set is the top set of 5). The exception is the Wednesday squat for 5x5 using somewhere between 10-20% less than the working weight on the Monday 5x5 workout (the Wed squat may increase less than the Monday squat over the ramping weeks - meaning it may start at 12% less and wind up at 22% less by the last record week if one needs some extra recovery). What you are doing is gradually increasing the target weights week to week so you wind up performing record lifts in the final two weeks of the volume phase (weeks 3/4 in this case). If you miss a weight, hold it constant for the next week by carrying it forward (you should not be missing until weeks 3/4 though). Keep in mind that you have separate targets for 5x5 and 1x5 even though they are the same lift (i.e. bench press). The ramping is set separately for these and they are treated separately. It's a good idea to start conservatively as this gets fairly backbreaking and you'll be begging for week 5. The most common mistake is people starting too high. It's useful to start light and then be flexible either adding an extra week to the ramp up or moving your targets a bit as you feel your way. This is far easier in the intensity phase because you already have a reference - likewise the next time you run this workout, it'll be a no brainer. The main point in this phase is the volume. Lower the weight if need be but get the sets and reps in. If you fail on an exercise just carry the target weight forward into the next week. Some people who are new to this might find it easier to run this phase for 6 weeks starting much lighter and building slowly. If your working weights for the deadlift are 2x bodyweight (meaning you are a 200lbs lifter and you'll be doing 400+ for 5x5 throughout the cycle) it's probably a good idea to do lower the volume on that lift to 3x5 in this phase.

The easiest way to set this up the first time is to put current PRs in week 3 (with more experience and relevant lifts you might have new PR goals in both weeks 3 and 4). Your 5RM can be calculated and just drop off a given percentage for your 5x5RM (try 7.5% maybe) you get a week 3 figure for those lifts. Now back down to week 1. A conservative number to start with might be 80% of your Week 3 PR lift then split the difference for Week 2. If you are really strong (and jumps are large), you might need more weeks to ramp up. What you don't want to do is start too high, you can always tack on another week but if you start too high you blow the progression. Anyway, week 4 lifts are a margin above week 3, maybe 5%. It's important to plan it out and then play it by ear as you go, adjust where need be so that you culminate with the 2 final weeks. If that means starting lighter and running for 6 weeks that's fine. If that means, you thought 4 weeks was fine but you were unexpectedly stronger (or got stronger during this phase) and need to add an extra week to avoid a big jump, that's okay too - just be very conscious of fatigue level. Your first time through you'll feel pretty beat up after the last week, that's okay. If you are beat up entering the 2nd to last week, that's something to watch. You want to 'overreach' which is before overtraining. Sometimes you'll encounter a performance deficit and not be able to set PRs (very common for advanced athletes loading hard), without experience though you don't want to push it too hard and overdo it - takes too damn long to recover from.

OPTION 1 - Deload and Peak 3x3:

This option provides for deloading in the middle weeks and working toward new PRs in the final weeks (think of it as almost 2 loading phases as the 2nd will likely fatigue you by the time you are done). This makes it a bit harder to handle particularly for first timers. In addition, trainees might need a light week or two before moving back into another loading period.

Deloading Week - Week 5:
On week 5 drop the Wednesday squat workout, begin using the Deloading/Intensity set/rep scheme, and keep the weight the same as your last week in the Volume Phase. In reality the whole intensity phase and this week are the same thing, I just break this week out because there is no weight progression so in reality after the volume phase the whole thing is deloading/intensity which for the purposes of this workout are synonymous. Also my 3x per week layout tends to get pretty aggressive as many find themselves fatigued again by the end so it kind of makes logical sense to break this period separately. Largely semantics.

Intensification Phase - Week 6-9:
Everything is the same principal except that you use 3x3 and 1x3 setting records on week 8 and 9 (or the final 2 weeks of this phase). No Wednesday squatting. It's important that you recover before getting into the heavy weight PRs again so if you have to keep Week 6 light, go ahead. The important aspect of this phase is the weight increases. If you are burned out and you need an extra day here and there that's okay - this won't hurt you at all and unless you are feeling ripe it might well be beneficial. If you can't do all the work that's okay too. Just keep increasing the weight week to week. It might also help to keep the first week in this phase just incrementally higher than the Deloading Week to provide for extra recovery if needed. During this phase you'll be ramping the weights from your deloading week to your 3x3 and 1x3 records in the final 2 weeks. In this 3x per week pattern, start light once again and get a breather. Taking extra days or cutting out volume isn’t encouraged but if you need extra recovery do it and then adjust your future training plans accordingly. If you don’t get an adequate deload first (that 1 week may not be enough) you will cripple your gains. Better to get 90% out of a training cycle than 10%. You'll learn a lot about your tolerance for volume loading and unloading here - there is no need to try to be a hero. Get some experience and the next time you run this you'll be spot on but you wind up feeling your way to a degree the first time.

Post Cycle:
Depending upon how you feel, it's probably a good idea to deload again before moving back into another volume phase if you ran the 3x per week like I outlined above. See the alternative schedule below and perform this light for 2 weeks working on speed/acceleration. If you ran the 2x alternate schedule below for your deload/intensity you can likely move straight back into another volume phase.

OPTION 2 - Pure Deload:

This is designed to get you recovered without too much hassle or worry. Frequency is dropped to 2x per week and the Friday workout is dropped. The Wednesday workout can be moved to Thursday if desired. This phase can be run as long as needed to recover or until one wants to do something else. Maybe that's 1-2 weeks for some people to build enough steam to jump back into a loading phase. Maybe that's 4-5 weeks if someone feels they are really getting a lot out of it.

Week 5 and on switch to 3x3 and drop the Friday workout altogether. Week 5 weights are the same as the final week of loading. Over the following weeks increase the weight workout to workout if you get all 9 reps. If you don't get all the reps, keep the weight constant. You'll likely be able to move straight back into another volume phase after this is complete. As for the increases week to week, probably best to use a percentage but to make it easy for first timers maybe add 5lbs to benches and rows then 10lbs to squats and deads.